’60s, then you weren’t there. But it turned out I also have some entrepreneurial
talent. It’s not surprising—my father was a small businessman, my grandfather
was a small businessman, it kind of runs in the family. But I think I had cultural
biases against seeing it or valuing it that took a while to get over. So while Lotus
was getting started, I just saw it as a vehicle to doing great product. I never
wanted to have a big company.
Livingston: The word “creative” comes up a lot when you do a search...

lawsuit; we had a whole bunch of different alternative dispute resolution
conflict management approaches, through the employee relations function.
And then we had a diversity committee that had out gays and lesbians on it—
this was in 1984. We were the first corporate sponsor of an AIDS walk. We had
a corporate philanthropy committee in which the employees actually made
decisions about where the money went, not the pet projects of senior management.
So for many people what was memorable and important about Lotus was
that it was the best place they ever...

but, to be the recipient of that . . . I wasn’t particularly prepared for, nor did
I want most of that. I mean, I liked attention, but it’s a lot to get used to and a
lot of it made me profoundly uncomfortable.
And there was a series of values challenges that came up with running a
business that I was unprepared for that were very painful.
Livingston: Can you describe one?
Kapor: Lotus as a company wound up suing some other companies that
were copying our look and feel. Now, that...

are inspired by a vision and are passionate about some piece of disruptive technology—
who are going to create something that actually has value for people in
a way that can be a game changer. That’s sort of my sweet spot. But every project
is different, so the specific advice needs to be customized.
The most important thing for me is, I don’t want to work with someone who
says, “Just help me make the business be more successful.” I want to work with
entrepreneurs who are personally passionate, committed, and believe in what...

through from first principles.
And always having something running was a Sachs thing, because it was just
his experience it was a good thing, and I saw it and said, “Yes indeedy, we
should do this,” long before extreme programming.
Livingston: Was there ever a point when you wanted to quit?
Kapor: After we shipped and the business felt like it was getting out of control,
yes. The most fun parts were from time-equals-zero till 1984. I was terrified
about stuff—how’s this going to come out, what’s going to happen?
I did...